Aimee talks about her boxing (MP3, 1 MB )

There's the bell. And for the next hour, it's "Shadowboxing with Aimee Mann." A conversation with Aimee about her new CD, The Forgotten Arm available as of May 3rd, 2005. It's Aimee Mann's fifth studio album and marks 20 years since her debut recording as a member of the band, 'Til Tuesday.

The Forgotten Arm is a concept album that continues some of the themes that were examined on Aimee's 2002 album, Lost in Space.

Q: I'm Jody Denberg. Aimee, I know it took you 12 songs to tell the saga of the Forgotten Arm and the characters, John and Caroline, but I was wondering if you could give us a thumbnail sketch of the plot of The Forgotten Arm.

A: Well, it's not -- it's not really that much of a plot. It's more sort of a character study. These two people that meet at the Virginia State Fair in the early '70s, and he's a boxer and she's kind of a white-trash girl who's dying to get out of town. And they kind of run off together with the idea that they can leave all their problems behind. And he's got a bit of a drug problem that kind of gets worse as they're winding their way around the States. And then things start to fall apart. You know, it's a character study and relationship study.

Q: I want to get right into the music so people can get a taste of it.

A: Okay.

Q: And the first song is "Dear John." How does it set up The Forgotten Arm?

A: It's kind of an overview. It's from her point of view. And she's talking about when she first met him and he was boxing this exhibition round and -- at the State Fair. And so they -- she saw him and they kind of got together. And then there are sort of references to him having spent some time in Vietnam and, you know, they sort of lose touch. And, you know, so it's kind of like a quick beginning to end -- you know, what she remember from the relationship.

SONG: PICTURE IN A FRAME

Q: Aimee, even though there's a storyline running through The Forgotten Arm, as you said, it's a character study. You leave a lot of room for the listeners to interpret this.

A: Yeah, I leave a lot of room. I mean, I think what I was sort of thinking was that it was interesting for me to have all the songs be about the same characters, put them in more or less a chronological order, but not have it really be like a musical where each song kind of advances any plot point. You know, but just have the details be consistent. Because, generally, when writing, I tend to -- you know, there's sort of usually an array of things I'm kind of thinking about or fascinated by. And I tend to -- you know, that tends to crop up from song to song anyway. So for me, it was interesting to make it more specific. And I started thinking about it almost as if it was sort of a soundtrack to a movie, that didn't really exist or -- -- you know, I had kind of like scenes from other movies in my head at various times when I was writing this.

Q: Does the CD have a booklet that expounds upon the story or might there be even a more conventional book coming out that fleshes it out?

A: Not that really fleshes it out, but the artwork, there's a painter named Owen Smith that I came across that is doing all the – who's doing the cover illustrations and illustrations in the package. And it's set up to look like a book. It looks sort of like a pulp novel, so it's illustrations that maybe help to further the story, or just to, you know, kind of solidify the idea of these two people interacting.

Q: Were the songs on The Forgotten Arm written specifically to serve the story, or did you tailor some songs that you already had and then kind of work them into the concept?

A: There were a couple of songs specifically, like "King of the Jailhouse, where these two people kind of run off together. And I -- like I was sort of very intrigued by that picture. You know, that seemed very cinematic to me, like, you know, sort of two-lane blacktop. And then once I had kind of written that song, the songs that I had before, I went back and I sometimes heavily rewrote, sometimes just mildly rewrote. Like, "Dear John" was a heavy rewrite, because I -- it sort of originally was a song that it was about a similar kind of character, this sort of raconteur, but it was more like a Great Gatsby, like in the '20s, you know. So it was like this period piece and there was -- it was supposed to take place in London, like it was a totally different thing. So I completely rewrote the details of that.

Q: One of the two main characters in The Forgotten Arm who you were just talking about, John, he's a boxer.

A: Hm-mmm.

Q: And of late, you've taken up the sport as well. What's the attraction of boxing to you?

A: Well I think that I probably made the character a boxer because I had started boxing and I got into boxing through a friend of mine who's a boxer, who also is an inspiration for some of these songs, who has had a history of very severe drug addiction. Yhere's a lot of, you know, kind of elements that kind of creep up. You know, it's always interesting for me to sort of throw details about things that, you know, like boxing -- like, why not make him a boxer, because I had so many metaphors that, you know, referred back to boxing in the song. And then the painter who's doing the artwork, he kind of specialized in painters of boxers. And it was sort of this perfect -- like it all tied in together.

...On the success of the Magnolia OST (MP3, 1 MB)

Q: So do your friends and loved ones, are they telling you to "be careful, Aimee"? I heard you were sporting a black eye the other day, actually.

A: Yeah, I had quite a black eye. You know, my husband was a little worried when I came home with a black eye, but -- but also, I mean, they kind of understand. I thinkthat , you know the more time they spend with me -- and he came to see me spar and sort of got an idea of what it was. And, you know, when you sort of learn more details about boxing and how complicated it is and it's a very long-term process to learn how to do it. I mean, it's not like, you know, you just get thrown in. I mean, some gyms probably do this, but at our gym, the trainers are very careful and nobody just throws you in with some monster who, you know, beats you to a bloody pulp just for fun. So it's more controlled. You know, if you're boxing with somebody who's much better then you, they usually -- I'll box with guys and they'll just throw jabs at me or just like lefts and rights, instead of the full array of punches. So it's like, you know -- I kind of work on defense and that kind of thing...

Q: The other main character in The Forgotten Arm is Caroline. What part of the story is told in this next song, "Goodbye, Caroline"?

A: "Goodbye Caroline" is when they've run off together and things are starting to get out of hand and his drug problem is getting out of hand and they've wound up in Vegas. And he decides that he needs to go somewhere to try to get help for his drug problem. The fun and games of the road trip are over and it's time for them to pack their bags and part ways. And so he goes off to some sort of, you know, rehab place or -- you know, just basically goes away to try to get help.

SONG: GOODBYE, CAROLINE

Q: Aimee, you recently released a splendid DVD and CD -- it's called Live at St. Ann's Warehouse -- during which you premiered a couple of the songs from The Forgotten Arm. At the time, you said you thought you were going to call this new album King of the Jailhouse. What made you change the title to The Forgotten Arm and what does that mean?

A: Well, The Forgotten Arm was the name my boxing friend, the guy who sort of initially gave me some lessons and got me interested in boxing, he showed me this boxing move that he called the forgotten arm. And I just thought it was such a great – it's like the greatest sort of image. And it was very evocative. And I really thought it would be perfect for this record.

And the reason I didn't call it The King of the Jailhouse was, that's one of the songs on the record. I mean, it's about the two people and it's about their relationship. It's not really just about this -- you know, the boxer character

Q: There's a continuity that runs from the themes on your last studio album, which was Lost in Space, in 2002, to The Forgotten Arm. You know, these days, it's like short-attention span. People can't focus like that. So it's unusual for someone to develop concepts over a three -- year period…

A: Yeah. I think one of the reasons I wanted to do a concept album is because, you know, people would talk about my last record, Lost in Space, they would say, "Hey, it's almost like a concept album." And I started to think, you know, well, why not just take it further and, you know, deliberately kind of make it about -- you know, have a story and have, you know, have some idea, have some plot or whatever that ties all the songs together

Q: And you picked up the thread from Lost in Space and brought it --

A: I think, yeah --

Q: -- in some respects.

A: In some respects. I mean, it's interesting, because, you know, there were references to addiction on the last record, which I kind of used as more of a metaphor for other sorts of more kind of internal struggles. You know, other kinds of compulsive behavior or obsessive thinking or that kind of thing. You know, inner turmoil people find themselves in. And also, as a metaphor for the -- having sort of a set of -- I don't know, like desires or beliefs that set you apart from other people, much like a drug addict who sort of lives in his own secret world and people outside that world don't like -- you know, they don't understand. They're like, "Why are you doing that?" You know, but like people within the world of drug addition, you know, totally understand it. It's like a different mindset. So just the idea of like having these separate worlds that other people can't really enter into, because Lost in Space, to me, was a lot of about disconnection and isolation.

And then I just happened to meet some people who were really -- had some really serious struggles with drug addiction, like really hardcore drug addiction. And my boxing friend, who, you know, did inspire a couple of the songs on this record, you know, had been struggling with addiction to crack for like 20 years. And so, you know, the idea of drug addiction became like much more specific, you know, in sort of talking to him and seeing like what a terrible heartache that is.

Q: Lost in Space, musically: very atmospheric. And The Forgotten Arm is pretty straightforward musically. Is that because you have a different producer this time, JoeHenry, or that the story was better served with a simpler approach, or was it both things?

A: Yeah, it's both things and also that I had done a lot of playing live with my band. And I just found that experience much -- really enjoyable. And so I wanted to recreate the -- you know, have more of the live experience in the studio. I didn't want to take a lot of time making the record. Part of the concept is that it takes place in the early '70s. And I wanted it to reflect that sound. And records were made much more quickly and much more stripped down and simply with, you know, certain kinds of instrumentation. You know, a lot of piano, very simple rock guitar, that kind of thing. And the producer was a friend of mine, Joe Henry. And I had worked with him a little bit, singing background vocals on other projects that he had produced. And I knew that he worked in this very simple, get a good band together and record it live (manner). You know, he's always in great spirits. He's always very funny. We box together, actually. He was -- we were taking lessons at the same place. So we've done some sparring together, which is kind of funny to spar with your producer.

He's just a lot of fun in the studio. So it keeps it very light, very spontaneous. And that's really just the feeling that I was going for. And I know it is maybe in contrast to the idea of a story of people who are struggling with these kinds of dark issues. But I think for me, like the difference in this record is that emotionally for me, the emphasis is on sort of recovery, rather than the addiction part.

Q: The light at the end of the tunnel.

A: Yeah. Yeah. And that people can pull out. I mean, I know other people who have drug problems as severe as my friend, who, you know, are -- have been clean for eight years and very, very successful and doing really well. And it's -- you know, it's just like a wonderful thing to see. And it's amazing what people can come back from. I mean, it's just amazing. But it is really tragic when you see people just, like, not be able to get out of it.